Debate: Prophecy and Archaeology Validate the Bible as the Word of God (Barker V. Ross)

This is part 2 of a two pronged debate between atheist Dan Barker and evangelical Thomas Ross. Unlike the first debate, this one puts the Christian in the affirmative position. Debate starts at 7:00 mark.

KJB1611: “Prophecy and Archaeology Validate the Bible as the Word of God” is part 2 of a debate between Dan Barker (atheist & president of the Freedom From Religion Foundation) and Thomas Ross (Independent Baptist seminary professor, Bible-believing Christian, follower of Jesus Christ) at the University of Wisconsin, Whitewater. Part 1 is “The Old Testament is Mainly Fiction, not Fact.” (Barker, affirm; Ross, deny). The debate terms and conditions state part two is a “continuation of … ‘The Old Testament is Mainly Fiction, not Fact’ … with the affirmative and negative propositions reversed. Any and all affirmations and arguments made in that previous debate are very relevant for this debate, as are any and all published or unpublished writings, statements, etc. of the debaters. This debate is one over the character of the vast general body of the Bible. That is, it is a debate over archaeology/prophecy/history, not over creation/evolution and Genesis 1-11, prehistory, geology, or biology. Those would be worthwhile debates, but they are for another time.” Also see the debate “The New Testament Picture of Jesus: Is It Accurate?”

Now in the affirmative, Thomas Ross expanded his prophecy argument from the book of Daniel in part 1 of the debate, explaining that around 1,400 BC Moses in Deuteronomy predicted specific events that took place hundreds and even thousands of years later. The Ketef Hinnom silver scrolls and other evidence prove that the predictions cannot have been written after the events predicted while refuting the JEDP theory or Documentary Hypothesis. Ezekiel also contains specific predictive prophecies concerning the city of Tyre and the Phoenician empire. Ross also listed 121 Messianic prophecies that cannot have been fulfilled by chance. He gave archaeological evidence for Mosaic authorship of the Pentateuch and for the Old Testament from suzerein-vassal treaties, archaeological sources such as the Merneptah Stele, the Gezer Calendar, the Tel Dan Stele, the Moabite Stone, Hezekiah’s tunnel, and so on, validating Israel’s exodus, entry into Canaan, Habiru destroying Hazor, the Davidic dynasty, the early use of the Hebrew language, etc. Ross pointed out that Barker had misquoted highly skeptical scholar Israel Finkelstein. Ross also noted that Dan Barker cannot name even one modern Syro-Palestinian archaeologist who agrees with his affirmations that the Old Testament is copied from pagan myths, Moses was copied from pagan sources involving two-syllable names starting with M, pygmies that went up to a mountain to get the law, and so on. Nor could Barker quote a single ancient historian or other ancient historical source that stated Biblical narratives were myths copied from paganism. Moses could not been copied from Persian myths about Mithra since the earliest mithraeum in Palestine dates to AD 361. The list of lawgivers Barker mentioned included figures from places like Iceland, which was settled only in the 9th century AD and is much too far from Israel to impact the Old Testament. Ross asked if Dorothy Murdock was a reliable source for Hebrew history when she did not know the Hebrew alphabet, ignored basic ancient Hebrew and Near Eastern sources, and made claims such as that Moses had horns coming out of his head, connecting this alleged fact to LSD. He pointed out the claim Barker borrowed from Murdock about Moses and African pygmies comes from statements the pygmies made in the 20th century AD after centuries of exposure to Christianity. The pygmies also live 3,500 miles away from Jerusalem, so they could not possibly have been copied by Moses thousands of years earlier and very far away. Murdock had claimed the African pygmies used to have white skin back when they had a worldwide empire and the lost continent of Atlantis existed, but such claims are crazy. Ross concluded that Dan Barker’s argument that the Old Testament was “copying and mimicking” pagan myths is impossible.

Dan Barker argued that predictive prophecy was impossible and atheism was true because of free will, employing his FANG or Freewill Argument for the Nonexistence of God. Ross responded that Mr. Barker assumed libertarian free will and appeared unaware of the Biblical view of free will, compatibilism. Barker admitted that claims the Old Testament was directly copying pagan mythology were “stupid,” but he said he never made such a claim. Ross responded by directly quoting Mr. Barker’s own words from part one of the debate, his published writings, and the FFRF website. Barker viewed these quotations as personal attacks. Dan Barker also claimed that Dorothy Murdock was a serious scholar despite ignoring ancient Near Eastern sources and relying heavily upon Wikipedia. He responded to Ross’s allegations of her inaccuracy by stating “brilliant scholars can be raving lunatics.”